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Post by shaunbebbers on Sept 17, 2020 8:34:49 GMT
Hi guys,
A huge caveat here - RGL won't be able to implement every feature that everyone wants, but let's imagine that we could. What one feature would you want implementing for THEC64 or Mini?
Thanks,
Shaun.
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Post by kugelblitz on Sept 17, 2020 9:20:07 GMT
Hi guys, A huge caveat here - RGL won't be able to implement every feature that everyone wants, but let's imagine that we could. What one feature would you want implementing for THEC64 or Mini? Thanks, Shaun. The great stuff that has been done by gurce and @spannernick here would be a fine indicator.
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Post by shaunbebbers on Sept 17, 2020 9:57:18 GMT
Hi guys, A huge caveat here - RGL won't be able to implement every feature that everyone wants, but let's imagine that we could. What one feature would you want implementing for THEC64 or Mini? Thanks, Shaun. The great stuff that has been done by gurce and @spannernick here would be a fine indicator. Yes, but that's not telling me what feature you want in a firmware upgrade if you could choose just one. Regards, Shaun.
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Post by gurce on Sept 17, 2020 10:08:47 GMT
I think 4-player support would be a fun inclusion. The RGL guys gave me a few pointers on how the mod could be accomplished. I haven't processed and absorbed it all yet, but I'm incrementally getting acquainted with the Vice codebase, so hopefully will make some inroads with it in time.
Beyond that, I think I crave little fun niche ideas that might not be worth RGL investing the time into, as probably only a small percentage of thec64 owners would want them. Stuff like: - mouse support - paddle support - warp mode toggle
Sometimes I have some wilder dreams that would probably sink way too much time to be feasible, but nonetheless, they make for nice dream extensions (perhaps I'll have the time when I retire :-D)
1) I dream I could one day add a user port expansion to thec64. Not sure exactly how I'd go about it. Perhaps there are some spare gpio pins that I could route to a user-port edge connector. Or if that's not feasible, perhaps I could try make a usb-to-userport adapter and get Vice to interface with that. Huge crazy time sink, I'll save that idea for retirement :-)
2) I was dreaming of trying to build a petemu.rgl file, and creating a carousel of pet games, just as a tribute to that earliest era of commodore computing. Probably a chunky endeavour, but maybe i could tackle it incrementally and make some progress with this one day.
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Post by shaunbebbers on Sept 17, 2020 10:12:34 GMT
I think 4-player support would be a fun inclusion. The RGL guys gave me a few pointers on how the mod could be accomplished. I haven't processed and absorbed it all yet, but I'm incrementally getting acquainted with the Vice codebase, so hopefully will make some inroads with it in time. I will check but I think you can map a third and forth joystick using a CJM to the keyboard so you could have a game that maps to the keyboard for up to four players and then map THEC64 joysticks on top of that. I know that's not how Protovision's Four Player Adapter works, but I will test exactly this when I get some free time. Thanks for your suggestion. Regards, Shaun.
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Post by shaunbebbers on Sept 17, 2020 10:46:13 GMT
Okay so I made a black D64 image called TestJoystick.d64 and a CJM file called TestJoystick.cjm. The contents of the CJM file are as follows:
X:64,pal,fullheight J:1:JU,JD,JL,JR,JF,JF,RS,SP,SP,RS,F1,F7,RS J:2*:JU,JD,JL,JR,JF,JF,RS,CM,SP,F1,F3,F5,RS J:3:T,E,S,T,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9
Note that only 1, 2, 3, 6, 7 and 8 are mapped to THEC64 joystick, but other 3rd party controllers might also map to the missing keys. But for typical C64 purposes the joystick has enough additional buttons. Anyway, it works. I can spell the work TEST out using UP/DOWN/LEFT and RIGHT.
This occupies all of the available USB ports of course but it should work fine if you define a 4th joystick with a USB hub, though I think you will need a self-powered hub.
Regards,
Shaun.
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Post by gurce on Sept 17, 2020 10:51:04 GMT
Thanks for looking into it Shaun :-)
Glad this technique works, it'll be good for games like Rampage which had the 3rd player on the keyboard.
As for the protovision user-port path, yeah there's a few nice games out there for that too, so might be fun getting them working too one day.
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Post by shaunbebbers on Sept 17, 2020 10:56:09 GMT
Thanks for looking into it Shaun :-) Glad this technique works, it'll be good for games like Rampage which had the 3rd player on the keyboard. As for the protovision user-port path, yeah there's a few nice games out there for that too, so might be fun getting them working too one day. Of course, this might not work on earlier versions of the firmware, so for anyone who hasn't upgraded yet then please do. I'll speak to the Protovision guys to see if they are able to do a special version of Bomb Mania for THEC64 (of course, if this requires a lot of development work the answer will probably be no). Regards, Shaun.
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Post by kugelblitz on Sept 17, 2020 11:44:06 GMT
My favorite feature request for a firmware update: Joystick Swap, either as a button combo or as an option in the virtual keyboard.
A bit more complicated: Support for more joysticks/controllers, maybe even a generic profile so I can use (for example) Xbox-style controllers.
Very much more complicated: CJM support for combo-buttons/macros/commands. Example: Hold a button and move stick as a short cut to "Return / RunStop / Y / N" - to get through headered games with docs and trainer options (Remember...)
I am unsure how much support for games that are NOT bundled with the Maxi is viable (commercially) but every review of the Mini/Maxi I have seen points out that adding your own games is easy and a major factor for good reviews.
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Post by shaunbebbers on Sept 17, 2020 12:40:15 GMT
My favorite feature request for a firmware update: Joystick Swap, either as a button combo or as an option in the virtual keyboard. A bit more complicated: Support for more joysticks/controllers, maybe even a generic profile so I can use (for example) Xbox-style controllers. Very much more complicated: CJM support for combo-buttons/macros/commands. Example: Hold a button and move stick as a short cut to "Return / RunStop / Y / N" - to get through headered games with docs and trainer options (Remember...) I am unsure how much support for games that are NOT bundled with the Maxi is viable (commercially) but every review of the Mini/Maxi I have seen points out that adding your own games is easy and a major factor for good reviews. People have requested this but as THEC64 and Mini supports two or more joysticks, the easiest fix is to use a second joystick or controller. Regarding support for games, we are happy to support as far as is practical games from 3rd parties as long as they are legal, so all public domain software and all commercial software, for instance, from Protovision, Psytronik Software or RGCD. After taking such care to fully licence each game included on THEC64, it wouldn't be right for us to support unlicensed or pirated software. Regards, Shaun.
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Post by kugelblitz on Sept 17, 2020 16:47:56 GMT
Okay - then key combos or virtual keyboard items for a "Warp Mode" and/or Accurate Disk Mode. Although I have no idea how fast the board in the Maxi could run C64 code when turning off SID emulation and framesync.
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Post by wini on Sept 17, 2020 17:02:56 GMT
Support for any USB-Printer would be very nice!
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Post by spannernick on Sept 18, 2020 10:52:13 GMT
I think they mean is when you have 2 joystick connected, been able to swap between them on the fly, have a option in the Carousel and not having to put in a d64 image and adding a flag j1 or j2 to it or having to edit the cjm file, you have to use a pc to do it but we have C64 Joyswap shortcut now so thats better than nothing.. And if you have 2 joystick in you don't know what port they on, there should be some sort of notification saying what port the 2 joysticks are on, I know there work in series 1,2,3,4, on a original C64 you can see what port each joystick is connected to and you can get a adapter that plugs into the ports that lets you change ports by pressing a button on it, so you don't have to swap them over all the time, I have one for my C64 so the C64 joyswap it abit like that.. Dose the USB ports work this way... If you plug the first joystick in it adds it to "1" then if you then plug another one in it adds it to "2" and so on, what happens if you have both connected when you startup THEC64 Mini/Maxi, will they remember what each joystick is a signed to still..?
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Post by shaunbebbers on Sept 18, 2020 11:51:39 GMT
I think they mean is when you have 2 joystick connected, been able to swap between them on the fly, have a option in the Carousel and not having to put in a d64 image and adding a flag j1 or j2 to it or having to edit the cjm file, you have to use a pc to do it but we have C64 Joyswap shortcut now so thats better than nothing.. And if you have 2 joystick in you don't know what port they on, there should be some sort of notification saying what port the 2 joysticks are on, I know there work in series 1,2,3,4, on a original C64 you can see what port each joystick is connected to and you can get a adapter that plugs into the ports that lets you change ports by pressing a button on it, so you don't have to swap them over all the time, I have one for my C64 so the C64 joyswap it abit like that.. Dose the USB ports work this way... If you plug the first joystick in it adds it to "1" then if you then plug another one in it adds it to "2" and so on, what happens if you have both connected when you startup THEC64 Mini/Maxi, will they remember what each joystick is a signed to still..? The joystick that was last used to bring up the menu becomes the default joystick, so if in your CJM file, that's port 2, then that's the one you've just to access the media menu from "classic" mode for instance. This is why the CJM file is important. I know it's not always convenient but the issue is that the first version didn't have a working keyboard, so that was the only sensible work-around for the Mini once it allowed you to use your own disk images etc... Regards, Shaun.
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Post by shaunbebbers on Sept 18, 2020 11:54:09 GMT
Okay - then key combos or virtual keyboard items for a "Warp Mode" and/or Accurate Disk Mode. Although I have no idea how fast the board in the Maxi could run C64 code when turning off SID emulation and framesync. If you're not using accurate disk emulation then it's already using warp mode for disk access. And for 1581, there is no accurate disk emulation, so that's on warp mode by default. The issue with a turbo mode is that it will speed everything up, not just the emulated CPU. So unless something like SuperCPU emulation is possible, there won't be a turbo mode on THEC64 or Mini. Regards, Shaun.
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Post by spannernick on Sept 19, 2020 12:56:45 GMT
AD is very slow at loading, is it using the x64sc source code..? x64sc don't have warp mode, x64 does only, the newer version of Vice don't have x64 anymore only has x64sc, probably cause x64 is not accurate at emulating the C64 properly. It would be nice if you could implement the SuperCPU Emulator thats in Vice, it is available in Vice 2.4.. but only one user interested is not enough for you to work on it, I do understand why things are added and updated... If I am able to add a feature and make THEC64 Mini/Maxi better I am happy too, and it puts less workload on RGL too.. I might someday try and add the SuperCPU emulator to THEC64 Maxi, will have to compile it so it works on armhf and sun8i(Alwinner H3)... I don't do any of this to step on RGLs toes.. I do it to add things that not available and make THEC64 more interesting and attractive... and I like doing it too.
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Post by eddepad on Sept 19, 2020 14:06:12 GMT
AD is very slow at loading, is it using the x64sc source code..? x64sc don't have warp mode, x64 does only.... Windows 3.4 Vice SC has warp mode, and on my PI4 (Sedai) using Vice 3.4 SC also has warp mode. This mode uses a lot of CPU power so I don't think that's going to be added in THEC64.
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Post by kugelblitz on Sept 19, 2020 14:36:20 GMT
Okay - then key combos or virtual keyboard items for a "Warp Mode" and/or Accurate Disk Mode. Although I have no idea how fast the board in the Maxi could run C64 code when turning off SID emulation and framesync. If you're not using accurate disk emulation then it's already using warp mode for disk access. And for 1581, there is no accurate disk emulation, so that's on warp mode by default. The issue with a turbo mode is that it will speed everything up, not just the emulated CPU. So unless something like SuperCPU emulation is possible, there won't be a turbo mode on THEC64 or Mini. Regards, Shaun. Well, there ARE situations where I would like the emulation to be running at maximum speed to skip wait times. Not for interactive use of course. On a fast PC (most likely not on the A20 board) the combination of AD WITH Warp is possible.
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Post by shaunbebbers on Sept 20, 2020 21:07:25 GMT
AD is very slow at loading, is it using the x64sc source code..? x64sc don't have warp mode, x64 does only.... Windows 3.4 Vice SC has warp mode, and on my PI4 (Sedai) using Vice 3.4 SC also has warp mode. This mode uses a lot of CPU power so I don't think that's going to be added in THEC64. The problem with warp mode is that you don't have an authentic experience. And how do we control it from THEC64 using the keyboard which has exactly the same number of keys as the original Commodore C64? Or do we do this via a Commodore Joystick Map that a small number of people vocally complain about? Regards, Shaun.
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Post by ramidavis on Sept 26, 2020 22:21:30 GMT
I think 4-player support would be a fun inclusion. The RGL guys gave me a few pointers on how the mod could be accomplished. I haven't processed and absorbed it all yet, but I'm incrementally getting acquainted with the Vice codebase, so hopefully will make some inroads with it in time. I will check but I think you can map a third and forth joystick using a CJM to the keyboard so you could have a game that maps to the keyboard for up to four players and then map THEC64 joysticks on top of that. I know that's not how Protovision's Four Player Adapter works, but I will test exactly this when I get some free time. Thanks for your suggestion. Regards, Shaun. I would love mouse support.
I think adding support for .DFI disks would be nice as well.
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Post by spannernick on Sept 27, 2020 17:18:29 GMT
BBS support so you could connect a Wift USB adapter to THEC64 and connect it to the internet and BBS boards.
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Post by virtualsky on Sept 27, 2020 19:48:18 GMT
If there was a way to get my 64Mini to go emulate the C128 (both 40 and 80 column mode), that would be fantastic! And to be able to emulate a printer (similar to the way VICE does it) and output to a .txt file onto USB storage would also be a really cool feature to me.
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Post by theenemy on Sept 28, 2020 23:52:14 GMT
Support easyflash save support please
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Post by shaunbebbers on Oct 1, 2020 10:30:19 GMT
Support easyflash save support please It does .CRT images already, many of which I've downloaded from csdb.dk which fall under "Easy Flash" releases. You may need to upgrade your firmware though to be able to use .crt images. Thanks, Shaun.
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Post by veiner87 on Oct 3, 2020 7:08:05 GMT
Hi Shaun. It will be good to have also additional linear filter without scanlines, which will be useful while connecting thec64 to CRT TV. Because without any filters, screen flickers too much and after enabling current linear filter, screen also doesn't looks good due to attached scanlines shader.
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Post by veiner87 on Oct 3, 2020 13:09:07 GMT
Mouse support also would be helpful :-)
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Post by shaunbebbers on Oct 3, 2020 18:31:50 GMT
Mouse support also would be helpful :-) I have spoken about that with Chris but obviously that doesn't mean it will happen. Regards, Shaun.
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Post by veiner87 on Oct 3, 2020 18:37:10 GMT
Thanks for response :-)
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Post by kewlrika on Oct 20, 2020 20:52:42 GMT
First and foremost, removal of the huge input lag of the Mini. I dont care if you do a board upgrade and I have to buy a whole new one, or you selling a new board that everyone can change for themselves, but the Maxi is simply no option for me. I want the Mini, but without that input lag. Games like Uridium, Choplifter, Fort Apocalypse and similar are simply impossible to play with 300+ ms input lag. Even ~100 ms, like the Maxi has, would still be very noticeable, but at least playable. Oh and I hope, if you bring a Amiga Mini, you do it right this time, meaning input lag as low as possible. Thank you.
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Post by shaunbebbers on Oct 21, 2020 10:15:59 GMT
First and foremost, removal of the huge input lag of the Mini. I dont care if you do a board upgrade and I have to buy a whole new one, or you selling a new board that everyone can change for themselves, but the Maxi is simply no option for me. I want the Mini, but without that input lag. Games like Uridium, Choplifter, Fort Apocalypse and similar are simply impossible to play with 300+ ms input lag. Even ~100 ms, like the Maxi has, would still be very noticeable, but at least playable. Oh and I hope, if you bring a Amiga Mini, you do it right this time, meaning input lag as low as possible. Thank you. Are you running the latest firmware on your Mini? The input lag has been improved since the first version, but of course that is a consideration for us, and we want to provide a good user experience. As a side note, the input lag might be better or worse based on your TV or visual display unit. I purchased a small 12" monitor for my desk and the lag on that is not noticeable compared to the TV in the front room. Thanks, Shaun.
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