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Post by parzival on Feb 2, 2021 21:41:26 GMT
Well, call this a Big Goof.
I had stored data in my C64 (maxi), and while trying to get the system to recognize a USB drive, I reset the computer, not realizing this erases the data in the built-in storage system.
Oops.
So, is this an actual “erasing” of the data, or just a stripping of the directory info pointing to the data?
More importantly, is there anything I can do to retrieve it?
Obviously, I haven’t done or saved anything on the device since this happened.
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Post by spannernick on Feb 3, 2021 2:07:06 GMT
No if you had saved games then they have gone, it deletes them.
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Post by jj0 on Feb 3, 2021 6:59:43 GMT
Well, call this a Big Goof. I had stored data in my C64 (maxi), and while trying to get the system to recognize a USB drive, I reset the computer, not realizing this erases the data in the built-in storage system. Oops. So, is this an actual “erasing” of the data, or just a stripping of the directory info pointing to the data? More importantly, is there anything I can do to retrieve it? Obviously, I haven’t done or saved anything on the device since this happened. Slim chance, but: 1. Make a backup of your nandb, e.g. via FEL-mode, XWM or manually 2. On any Linux system (including Windows Subsystem for Linux and booting Linux from USB) install the 'testdisk' utility. This allows you to to undelete files 3. Run the testdisk utility on a copy of your nandb backup and see what you can recover, probably located in the /var/lib/the64/profile/0/saves/<gamename> directories but as the directories themselves will have been deleted you might have to undelete them first The less you have saved after the reset the better as new stuff might overwrite deleted space. 3. |
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Post by parzival on Feb 4, 2021 18:06:07 GMT
Well, call this a Big Goof. I had stored data in my C64 (maxi), and while trying to get the system to recognize a USB drive, I reset the computer, not realizing this erases the data in the built-in storage system. Oops. So, is this an actual “erasing” of the data, or just a stripping of the directory info pointing to the data? More importantly, is there anything I can do to retrieve it? Obviously, I haven’t done or saved anything on the device since this happened. Slim chance, but: 1. Make a backup of your nandb, e.g. via FEL-mode, XWM or manually 2. On any Linux system (including Windows Subsystem for Linux and booting Linux from USB) install the 'testdisk' utility. This allows you to to undelete files 3. Run the testdisk utility on a copy of your nandb backup and see what you can recover, probably located in the /var/lib/the64/profile/0/saves/<gamename> directories but as the directories themselves will have been deleted you might have to undelete them first The less you have saved after the reset the better as new stuff might overwrite deleted space. 3. I confess, I don’t know these terms. My computer skills pretty much end with BASIC. A quick search indicates that NAND is a flash storage system, so I get the idea of backing up the ‘nandb’, but I have no idea of how one does that, nor what FEL-mode or XWM are, nor how I would do the backup manually. I don’t have a Linux or Windows system available. I do have a Mac, so I have access to the Terminal utility app and the Disk Utility app, if those would be of use. Thanks for the advice, and if you (or anyone) can explain the backup process, I’d be grateful! |
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Post by jj0 on Feb 4, 2021 18:23:02 GMT
Slim chance, but: 1. Make a backup of your nandb, e.g. via FEL-mode, XWM or manually 2. On any Linux system (including Windows Subsystem for Linux and booting Linux from USB) install the 'testdisk' utility. This allows you to to undelete files 3. Run the testdisk utility on a copy of your nandb backup and see what you can recover, probably located in the /var/lib/the64/profile/0/saves/<gamename> directories but as the directories themselves will have been deleted you might have to undelete them first The less you have saved after the reset the better as new stuff might overwrite deleted space. 3. I confess, I don’t know these terms. My computer skills pretty much end with BASIC. A quick search indicates that NAND is a flash storage system, so I get the idea of backing up the ‘nandb’, but I have no idea of how one does that, nor what FEL-mode or XWM are, nor how I would do the backup manually. I don’t have a Linux or Windows system available. I do have a Mac, so I have access to the Terminal utility app and the Disk Utility app, if those would be of use. Thanks for the advice, and if you (or anyone) can explain the backup process, I’d be grateful! Hmmm tricky, as I don't know much about Mac's. For FEL-mode you need the sunxi-fel utility. Apparently you can install this on your Mac as part of this tool. XWM is probably easier to use and you only have to click the nand backup icon on the desktop to make a backup. The testdisk utility is also available on the Mac. So you should be able to run testdisk on a copy of your internal storage (the nandb backup file) and see where that gets you. |
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Post by spannernick on Feb 4, 2021 18:36:08 GMT
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Post by parzival on Feb 20, 2021 21:19:39 GMT
File this under “What the heck?”
My data is back, and I don’t know why!
Since my data disaster, I’ve been saving to the internal save slots using the C64 media system AND to a USB stick using the C64 BASIC “Save” command. Today, I saved to the first internal slot (I thought) and ejected the USB “disk,” shut down the machine, and removed the USB stick. I then turned on the machine without the stick, and the original slots were back with their data from the last time I had saved to them, right before I had reset the machine!
Anybody know what happened?
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Post by jj0 on Feb 21, 2021 10:18:41 GMT
File this under “What the heck?” My data is back, and I don’t know why! Since my data disaster, I’ve been saving to the internal save slots using the C64 media system AND to a USB stick using the C64 BASIC “Save” command. Today, I saved to the first internal slot (I thought) and ejected the USB “disk,” shut down the machine, and removed the USB stick. I then turned on the machine without the stick, and the original slots were back with their data from the last time I had saved to them, right before I had reset the machine! Anybody know what happened? Hmmmm.... No idea really. But great that you have your data back even though you probably recreated it already  |
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Post by spannernick on Feb 21, 2021 11:02:25 GMT
It sounds like when you plug the USB in it might be using the .THEC64SAVE on the usb stick so overmounting the saves in the firmware so you can't see them when the usb stick is plugged in so when you reset it deleted the files on the usb stick only.
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Post by parzival on Feb 22, 2021 14:40:45 GMT
It sounds like when you plug the USB in it might be using the .THEC64SAVE on the usb stick so overmounting the saves in the firmware so you can't see them when the usb stick is plugged in so when you reset it deleted the files on the usb stick only. I’m a little unclear on what you mean. I think you’re saying that the machine sees either four unique slots on its own internal flash memory OR four unique slots on a USB stick (plus the portion treated as a “disk” drive), but not both at the same time? If so, I get that, but man, that’s a weird way of doing things. So now the question is how do I get the data from the no-USB internal slots onto my USB stick... |
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Post by jj0 on Feb 22, 2021 14:54:03 GMT
It sounds like when you plug the USB in it might be using the .THEC64SAVE on the usb stick so overmounting the saves in the firmware so you can't see them when the usb stick is plugged in so when you reset it deleted the files on the usb stick only. I’m a little unclear on what you mean. I think you’re saying that the machine sees either four unique slots on its own internal flash memory OR four unique slots on a USB stick (plus the portion treated as a “disk” drive), but not both at the same time? If so, I get that, but man, that’s a weird way of doing things. Well this way they keep the USB save states with the USB games which kind of makes sense. This way I guess  |
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Post by parzival on Feb 22, 2021 15:18:22 GMT
Ah! I note that your explanation there says it will overwrite the four “Carousel” save slots on the USB. Does this mean it will also overwrite a file saved directly from BASIC to the USB virtual “disk” drive, or will that file be preserved?
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Post by jj0 on Feb 22, 2021 15:43:31 GMT
Ah! I note that your explanation there says it will overwrite the four “Carousel” save slots on the USB. Does this mean it will also overwrite a file saved directly from BASIC to the USB virtual “disk” drive, or will that file be preserved? I don't think so because the save slots do not include a THEC64-drive8.d64 file. Also the/a THEC64-drive8.d64 file is usually on the root on the USB drive. But as you know, better safe than sorry so trying this first on an empty USB drive would be a sensible way to fo it. |
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Post by parzival on Feb 25, 2021 17:37:18 GMT
Yeah, my thought too. Time to find another USB stick...
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Post by parzival on Mar 3, 2021 15:59:41 GMT
New USB stick, same issue.
With no USB stick in, my original save states are available.
With any USB stick in, they are not.
I’ve been pouring through the online info, and I can’t tell whether it’s safe or not to insert a USB stick when the computer is already running, or if the computer will recognize the stick if I do so, and what will happen to the save state data if I do so. I know USB was created as a “hot swappable” solution, but can the C64 recognize that?
Also, what happens if two USB sticks are inserted at the same time? Does the machine see both of them as distinct, simultaneously connected “disk” drives?
I haven’t tried any of these options as I’m being careful not to do anything which might lose my data or damage device or sticks.
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Post by jj0 on Mar 3, 2021 16:23:02 GMT
New USB stick, same issue. With no USB stick in, my original save states are available. With any USB stick in, they are not. I’ve been pouring through the online info, and I can’t tell whether it’s safe or not to insert a USB stick when the computer is already running, or if the computer will recognize the stick if I do so, and what will happen to the save state data if I do so. I know USB was created as a “hot swappable” solution, but can the C64 recognize that? Also, what happens if two USB sticks are inserted at the same time? Does the machine see both of them as distinct, simultaneously connected “disk” drives? I haven’t tried any of these options as I’m being careful not to do anything which might lose my data or damage device or sticks. This is consistent with the theory that if an USB drive is inserted that is where the savestates will go. IMHO, YMMV: 1. It's safe to insert a USB drive or to remove a USB drive if you are in the Carousel. I've done it 100's of times. 2. It's not safe to remove a USB drive if you are in the System Info menu or if you are browsing games on the USB drive or playing a game from USB drive or being in BASIC if the USB drive was inserted when you started BASIC 3. If you insert two USB drives only the first one will be used |
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Post by parzival on Mar 3, 2021 19:14:38 GMT
So it appears there’s no way to backup the data in the device save states to a USB stick, or anyway to backup the USB stick data to another USB stick (at least not on the device itself).  I’m actually wondering why it has 4 USB slots— 2 for joysticks, 1 for USB stick... but what’s the fourth one for? As I understand it, the device can’t operate a printer or other peripheral (save for a USB keyboard, which would be redundant on the “maxi” I have). So at this time, the 4th slot isn’t immediately useful, correct? |
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Post by kugelblitz on Mar 3, 2021 19:48:48 GMT
So it appears there’s no way to backup the data in the device save states to a USB stick, or anyway to backup the USB stick data to another USB stick (at least not on the device itself). I’m actually wondering why it has 4 USB slots— 2 for joysticks, 1 for USB stick... but what’s the fourth one for? As I understand it, the device can’t operate a printer or other peripheral (save for a USB keyboard, which would be redundant on the “maxi” I have). So at this time, the 4th slot isn’t immediately useful, correct? The Mini was missing one, the Maxi has one too much... :-) |
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Post by jj0 on Mar 3, 2021 21:57:01 GMT
So it appears there’s no way to backup the data in the device save states to a USB stick, or anyway to backup the USB stick data to another USB stick (at least not on the device itself). I’m actually wondering why it has 4 USB slots— 2 for joysticks, 1 for USB stick... but what’s the fourth one for? As I understand it, the device can’t operate a printer or other peripheral (save for a USB keyboard, which would be redundant on the “maxi” I have). So at this time, the 4th slot isn’t immediately useful, correct? Just hypothesizing: 2 for joysticks 1 for USB stick The 4th one for FEL -mode in case it is needed. This is (I think) a different USB controller compared to the other 3 and from what I've read it's not 100% dependable for use for USB sticks etc. |
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