Post by c64stuff on Aug 14, 2021 14:57:42 GMT
After watching a few videos on the A500 as well as reading the comments under them, one thing that irks me is the continued belief by some overseas that Commodore wasn't all that popular in the states.
I have no idea where this belief started but it's an ongoing theme. As somebody who grew up in the golden age of computers and consoles I can tell you the perspective of somebody who actually lived it.
First, the spectrum was virtually unknown here. Timex blew it big time by not making their version completely compatible with the Spectrum overseas.
Moving on, the Ti994a computer was also a flop. Way overpriced and not nearly as capable as the 64. Jack Trameil had a vendetta against them because they tried to muscle him out of chips he needed. That's why he bought his own chip factory, and then he cut prices to drive the Ti994a off the market.
The Apple II line was even more overpriced and couldn't hold a candle to the 64 in graphics or sound. It was mainly owned by teachers who used them in schools.
That leaves us with Atari. While many of us started with a 2600, when the 64 came out everybody was buying one. The Atari computers were more expensive and aging technology.
Finally we come down to the Nintendo. That's another myth, that it revived the gaming market. The gaming market never slowed down for 64 or Amiga users. It was only households who only owned consoles like the 2600 that stopped buying games. I don't blame them, because games were expensive and mostly crap. Fortunately computer owners could "try" tons of games before finding ones worth buying. Remember at that time most households didn't own computers, so for your average soccer mom a Nintendo was a less scary purchase. While everybody else was buying expensive Nintendo cartridges, commodore owners were trading games at swap meets or on BBS systems. The games were being made in America and the UK like crazy.
Later when the Amiga arrived, it too was way more popular than any of the other manufacturers listed above. The macintosh was once again a way overpriced product from Apple that only upper middle class could afford mostly. Just by price alone, and not even talking about it's lack of features compared to an Amiga, it was limited in it's appeal to the masses. Most people simply couldn't afford one.
The Atari ST never gained much of a foothold because many prior atari owners had switched to the 64, and as a result the Amiga was a natural choice for them in upgrading. Plus the ST wasn't as capable of a machine. It had several hardware updates to try to catch up to the Amiga, but what that resulted in was software writers only writing games that didn't use the advancing features of the ST so all the machines would work with the game. Had the Falcon been what Atari released from the start it might have held up much better against the Amiga.
The IBM clones hadn't yet flooded the market yet. This was the peak of the golden age in computers, when there was still a diverse range of brands and unique experiences. Computers had souls then, before souless IBM compatibles took over everything.
So was the C64 and Amiga bigger overseas? Maybe, but that doesn't mean they weren't big in the states. Remember we didn't have the low cost spectrum competing for sales with the C64, and the ST I think was far more popular overseas than it ever was here, so by virtue of that alone our market of consumers wasn't split between two brands for the most part. If you were into gaming or even bang for your buck in home computers for other uses, Commodores were by far the most popular in America. They were even sold at major retail stores such as Kmart, or at the biggest book store chains in malls like Walden Books (if I remember the name right). Virtually everybody I knew in school either had an Amiga or a C64. I knew of no ST or Apple owners, and thinking about it I only knew one person with an Atari 8 bit computer, the 800.
I'd also add one more myth that seems repeated, that all the best games came from overseas. That's not the case. Many games had two versions, and often the US one was better. I also don't understand why people say that you need a PAL C64 or Amiga so you can really enjoy most games. That was never the case for me with the 64, rarely running into PAL games that wouldn't run. And the Amiga will boot in PAL mode by simply holding down a mouse key, but again I never ran into software that needed that to work.
Maybe others had different experiences on all of the above. I'm just relating mine. I miss those days, when communication and news was done by BBS slowly working it's way across the country. When you'd eagerly head down to the store for the latest Commodore magazines. When you'd stop at the arcade to see the latest breakthroughs in graphics or sound, and then couldn't wait to see if the C64 version could pull off the same thing, or how the latest Amiga game was even better than what was new at the arcade. That was a game changer. We'd wasted so many quarters at the arcade to play the latest and greatest, and now we didn't need to. Heck, even the 64 was often better or just as good as the arcade.
Many gaming themes were born in those days. Stuff that modern programmers simply copy and would never have had the imagination to dream up. Modern gaming systems bore me. It's like watching a movie, but that's me. If you offered me a brand new playstation or an old C64, Spectrum, or Amiga, I'd take the old computer or console. The old stuff is far more rewarding to play, and more interesting to use. It's got character, like a classic car or an old motorcycle. Those were the times when the industry was alive, and it wasn't all about money and multi million dollar advertising campaigns. Everybody from the computer designer to the guy writing a game in his bedroom had a real passion for home computers, and loyalty was everything.
Those were exciting times. Probably the only thing in modern computers that comes as close to the feeling that you were breaking rules and flying by the seat of your pants is the raspberry pi. What?! A $35 computer that is trying to challenge the monolith windows compatible domination of home computers?! Yes please, more of that! We've lived under the boring oppression of the Windows powered Borg hive mind for FAR too long! Lol.. That little single board computer has character. It's trying to stand up to the same thing that crushed Commodore and others. Suddenly, computers are getting interesting again...
I have no idea where this belief started but it's an ongoing theme. As somebody who grew up in the golden age of computers and consoles I can tell you the perspective of somebody who actually lived it.
First, the spectrum was virtually unknown here. Timex blew it big time by not making their version completely compatible with the Spectrum overseas.
Moving on, the Ti994a computer was also a flop. Way overpriced and not nearly as capable as the 64. Jack Trameil had a vendetta against them because they tried to muscle him out of chips he needed. That's why he bought his own chip factory, and then he cut prices to drive the Ti994a off the market.
The Apple II line was even more overpriced and couldn't hold a candle to the 64 in graphics or sound. It was mainly owned by teachers who used them in schools.
That leaves us with Atari. While many of us started with a 2600, when the 64 came out everybody was buying one. The Atari computers were more expensive and aging technology.
Finally we come down to the Nintendo. That's another myth, that it revived the gaming market. The gaming market never slowed down for 64 or Amiga users. It was only households who only owned consoles like the 2600 that stopped buying games. I don't blame them, because games were expensive and mostly crap. Fortunately computer owners could "try" tons of games before finding ones worth buying. Remember at that time most households didn't own computers, so for your average soccer mom a Nintendo was a less scary purchase. While everybody else was buying expensive Nintendo cartridges, commodore owners were trading games at swap meets or on BBS systems. The games were being made in America and the UK like crazy.
Later when the Amiga arrived, it too was way more popular than any of the other manufacturers listed above. The macintosh was once again a way overpriced product from Apple that only upper middle class could afford mostly. Just by price alone, and not even talking about it's lack of features compared to an Amiga, it was limited in it's appeal to the masses. Most people simply couldn't afford one.
The Atari ST never gained much of a foothold because many prior atari owners had switched to the 64, and as a result the Amiga was a natural choice for them in upgrading. Plus the ST wasn't as capable of a machine. It had several hardware updates to try to catch up to the Amiga, but what that resulted in was software writers only writing games that didn't use the advancing features of the ST so all the machines would work with the game. Had the Falcon been what Atari released from the start it might have held up much better against the Amiga.
The IBM clones hadn't yet flooded the market yet. This was the peak of the golden age in computers, when there was still a diverse range of brands and unique experiences. Computers had souls then, before souless IBM compatibles took over everything.
So was the C64 and Amiga bigger overseas? Maybe, but that doesn't mean they weren't big in the states. Remember we didn't have the low cost spectrum competing for sales with the C64, and the ST I think was far more popular overseas than it ever was here, so by virtue of that alone our market of consumers wasn't split between two brands for the most part. If you were into gaming or even bang for your buck in home computers for other uses, Commodores were by far the most popular in America. They were even sold at major retail stores such as Kmart, or at the biggest book store chains in malls like Walden Books (if I remember the name right). Virtually everybody I knew in school either had an Amiga or a C64. I knew of no ST or Apple owners, and thinking about it I only knew one person with an Atari 8 bit computer, the 800.
I'd also add one more myth that seems repeated, that all the best games came from overseas. That's not the case. Many games had two versions, and often the US one was better. I also don't understand why people say that you need a PAL C64 or Amiga so you can really enjoy most games. That was never the case for me with the 64, rarely running into PAL games that wouldn't run. And the Amiga will boot in PAL mode by simply holding down a mouse key, but again I never ran into software that needed that to work.
Maybe others had different experiences on all of the above. I'm just relating mine. I miss those days, when communication and news was done by BBS slowly working it's way across the country. When you'd eagerly head down to the store for the latest Commodore magazines. When you'd stop at the arcade to see the latest breakthroughs in graphics or sound, and then couldn't wait to see if the C64 version could pull off the same thing, or how the latest Amiga game was even better than what was new at the arcade. That was a game changer. We'd wasted so many quarters at the arcade to play the latest and greatest, and now we didn't need to. Heck, even the 64 was often better or just as good as the arcade.
Many gaming themes were born in those days. Stuff that modern programmers simply copy and would never have had the imagination to dream up. Modern gaming systems bore me. It's like watching a movie, but that's me. If you offered me a brand new playstation or an old C64, Spectrum, or Amiga, I'd take the old computer or console. The old stuff is far more rewarding to play, and more interesting to use. It's got character, like a classic car or an old motorcycle. Those were the times when the industry was alive, and it wasn't all about money and multi million dollar advertising campaigns. Everybody from the computer designer to the guy writing a game in his bedroom had a real passion for home computers, and loyalty was everything.
Those were exciting times. Probably the only thing in modern computers that comes as close to the feeling that you were breaking rules and flying by the seat of your pants is the raspberry pi. What?! A $35 computer that is trying to challenge the monolith windows compatible domination of home computers?! Yes please, more of that! We've lived under the boring oppression of the Windows powered Borg hive mind for FAR too long! Lol.. That little single board computer has character. It's trying to stand up to the same thing that crushed Commodore and others. Suddenly, computers are getting interesting again...
