Post by spannernick on Apr 25, 2018 17:54:38 GMT
Jammet26 Mar
Hello! I read that the VICE emulator is being used for the actual emulation. Vice has a whole ton of features that I would like to adjust and use. Is the VICE menu accessible from within the Mini?
Also, since the emulator is published through the GNU license, I would be interested in the source code.
Lastly, I would really appreciate it, if it were possible to boot straight into the BASIC mode. Perhaps by simply detecting the presence of a specific file on a currently inserted USB stick. (BOOTBASIC or some such).
G Gurce26 MarEdited
Jammet Hi Jammet, some people think it might be VICE. Personally, I'm thinking it might not be, as I watched a "riot retro" interview with Paul Andrews and Chris Smith on youtube, where they described the hurdles they faced with sound emulation and tearing:
My guess is that they have their own proprietary emulator, hence why there were some limitions that users familiar with VICE were not accustomed to, hence why they're updating their firmware as they get a sense of which of those features seem most in demand.
Perhaps VICE may have had caveats in their license relating to using their source in a sellable closed-source product, which might've meant the dev team had to roll their own for this system.
Anyway, these are my speculations too, I could be mistaken also :-)
Jammet likes this.
Jammet26 MarEdited
Maybe I've been misinformed. Several days ago I have watched an interview (perhaps this one?) where VICE was specifically mentioned as being the core around which the mini was built. So, chances are, that was a mistake I made, or I'm having a hearing problem. Will give this another listen, or find the interview I thought I listened to.
Thanks for linking this!
A lot of GPL'd software has been used in commercially sold products before, like in the Sony Playstation for example. I'm not aware of any other licences being used, that could've been hurdles. The only requirement is that alterations to the source code need to be made public, which usually isn't a big deal.
But I still do hope that we will some day be able to boot straight into basic, and use a hotkey to select a (D64?) file from the drive connected to the USB port. Or USB stick, whichever it is. That, along with being able to properly use a USB keyboard, would pretty much turn this into a home computer
.
Gurce likes this.
RetroBiker26 Mar
Jammet I saw the information on a video on YouTube from "Laird's Lair". There is a new review video just posted on that channel which might have more info. I'll watch it later and see.
I'm sure, now that people are starting to receive them, that we'll see plenty of videos this week.
The VICE GPL license requires that the source for VICE (or any derivative) be made available. Anything that ties in to VICE (such as the carousel app) is not covered by that. There is no restriction in the GPL from selling anything based on GPL covered content.
Jammet likes this.
A MONTH LATER
Jammet4 days ago
Looks like VICE might be the emulation core, after all, according to the information that jj_0 provided:
community.thec64.com/d/338-modding-thec64-mini/4
So, I'm hoping for some clarification from RG.
Gurce and RetroBiker like this.
G Gurce4 days ago
Jammet Wow, what a day, with the evidence from jj in that other thread, I'm starting to feel it is a modded vice now.
I read this on their faq page too:
Do you use any Open Source code in THEC64 Mini?
Yes, some. You may obtain the corresponding Open Source code from us for a period of three years after our last shipment of this product, by sending a money order or cheque for 5 GBP to: GPL Compliance Division, Retro Games Ltd. Suite 112, Crystal House, New Bedford Road, Luton, England. LU1 1HS.
Please write “source for <firmware version number>” in the memo line of your payment.
Jammet likes this.
Jammet4 days ago
Interesting. I might consider doing that then. No idea why they want a fee paid for this, but once you have obtained GPL'd source code from a source that charged you a fee, it is your right to distribute it free of charge.
Problem is, I don't know how to do this money order/check thing internationally. If someone else living in England wants to do it, but is shy of paying that fee, I'd be happy to PayPal you, then put the files online somewhere for public access free of charge.
www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.en.html#DoesTheGPLAllowRequireFee
S spannernick13 days ago
I will do it,when the time comes..
Jammet likes this.
Jammet3 days ago
Much appreciated!!
S spannernick13 days ago
Yes its Vice emulator they are using.I tested it with C64 Forever and the Vice emulator too and it dose the same thing that does.
Gurce likes this.
PantherUK3 days ago
The hardware scrolling emulation is much smoother on the mini than on the latest version of vice...
MIK likes this.
ZeHa replied to this.
Jammet2 days ago
True, and I believe this is because everything was optimised towards the 720p resolution and the AllWinner chip. The changes made could also be interesting to see in the form of source code.
PantherUK likes this.
ZeHa10 hours ago
PantherUK
Jammet
I'm pretty sure this has just has got to do with the Mini outputting 50 Hz. You can try the following on your computers: If your computer has 60 Hz output (which is 99% likely), just put your VICE into NTSC mode (which has also 60 Hz). Then load up "Giana Sisters" and you will see a perfectly scrolling title screen. There might be some small tearing every now and then or a hiccup every 2-3 seconds or so, but this has to do with VICE not running in realtime or not being VSynced. However, these problems probably don't exist on the Mini either, because it's a "specialized device" that only runs one application (VICE) and no background processes and they could simply have enabled proper VSync for this app.
So I guess they didn't really change the VICE code for that, they merely used proper 50 Hz output (which is a HDTV standard frequency) and made sure VICE runs as close to realtime as possible by telling the underlying Linux to give it full priority and removed all unnecessary background processes.
Jammet likes this.
Hello! I read that the VICE emulator is being used for the actual emulation. Vice has a whole ton of features that I would like to adjust and use. Is the VICE menu accessible from within the Mini?
Also, since the emulator is published through the GNU license, I would be interested in the source code.
Lastly, I would really appreciate it, if it were possible to boot straight into the BASIC mode. Perhaps by simply detecting the presence of a specific file on a currently inserted USB stick. (BOOTBASIC or some such).
G Gurce26 MarEdited
Jammet Hi Jammet, some people think it might be VICE. Personally, I'm thinking it might not be, as I watched a "riot retro" interview with Paul Andrews and Chris Smith on youtube, where they described the hurdles they faced with sound emulation and tearing:
My guess is that they have their own proprietary emulator, hence why there were some limitions that users familiar with VICE were not accustomed to, hence why they're updating their firmware as they get a sense of which of those features seem most in demand.
Perhaps VICE may have had caveats in their license relating to using their source in a sellable closed-source product, which might've meant the dev team had to roll their own for this system.
Anyway, these are my speculations too, I could be mistaken also :-)
Jammet likes this.
Jammet26 MarEdited
Maybe I've been misinformed. Several days ago I have watched an interview (perhaps this one?) where VICE was specifically mentioned as being the core around which the mini was built. So, chances are, that was a mistake I made, or I'm having a hearing problem. Will give this another listen, or find the interview I thought I listened to.
Thanks for linking this!
A lot of GPL'd software has been used in commercially sold products before, like in the Sony Playstation for example. I'm not aware of any other licences being used, that could've been hurdles. The only requirement is that alterations to the source code need to be made public, which usually isn't a big deal.
But I still do hope that we will some day be able to boot straight into basic, and use a hotkey to select a (D64?) file from the drive connected to the USB port. Or USB stick, whichever it is. That, along with being able to properly use a USB keyboard, would pretty much turn this into a home computer
.Gurce likes this.
RetroBiker26 Mar
Jammet I saw the information on a video on YouTube from "Laird's Lair". There is a new review video just posted on that channel which might have more info. I'll watch it later and see.
I'm sure, now that people are starting to receive them, that we'll see plenty of videos this week.
The VICE GPL license requires that the source for VICE (or any derivative) be made available. Anything that ties in to VICE (such as the carousel app) is not covered by that. There is no restriction in the GPL from selling anything based on GPL covered content.
Jammet likes this.
A MONTH LATER
Jammet4 days ago
Looks like VICE might be the emulation core, after all, according to the information that jj_0 provided:
community.thec64.com/d/338-modding-thec64-mini/4
So, I'm hoping for some clarification from RG.
Gurce and RetroBiker like this.
G Gurce4 days ago
Jammet Wow, what a day, with the evidence from jj in that other thread, I'm starting to feel it is a modded vice now.
I read this on their faq page too:
Do you use any Open Source code in THEC64 Mini?
Yes, some. You may obtain the corresponding Open Source code from us for a period of three years after our last shipment of this product, by sending a money order or cheque for 5 GBP to: GPL Compliance Division, Retro Games Ltd. Suite 112, Crystal House, New Bedford Road, Luton, England. LU1 1HS.
Please write “source for <firmware version number>” in the memo line of your payment.
Jammet likes this.
Jammet4 days ago
Interesting. I might consider doing that then. No idea why they want a fee paid for this, but once you have obtained GPL'd source code from a source that charged you a fee, it is your right to distribute it free of charge.
Problem is, I don't know how to do this money order/check thing internationally. If someone else living in England wants to do it, but is shy of paying that fee, I'd be happy to PayPal you, then put the files online somewhere for public access free of charge.
www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.en.html#DoesTheGPLAllowRequireFee
S spannernick13 days ago
I will do it,when the time comes..
Jammet likes this.
Jammet3 days ago
Much appreciated!!
S spannernick13 days ago
Yes its Vice emulator they are using.I tested it with C64 Forever and the Vice emulator too and it dose the same thing that does.
Gurce likes this.
PantherUK3 days ago
The hardware scrolling emulation is much smoother on the mini than on the latest version of vice...
MIK likes this.
ZeHa replied to this.
Jammet2 days ago
True, and I believe this is because everything was optimised towards the 720p resolution and the AllWinner chip. The changes made could also be interesting to see in the form of source code.
PantherUK likes this.
ZeHa10 hours ago
PantherUK
Jammet
I'm pretty sure this has just has got to do with the Mini outputting 50 Hz. You can try the following on your computers: If your computer has 60 Hz output (which is 99% likely), just put your VICE into NTSC mode (which has also 60 Hz). Then load up "Giana Sisters" and you will see a perfectly scrolling title screen. There might be some small tearing every now and then or a hiccup every 2-3 seconds or so, but this has to do with VICE not running in realtime or not being VSynced. However, these problems probably don't exist on the Mini either, because it's a "specialized device" that only runs one application (VICE) and no background processes and they could simply have enabled proper VSync for this app.
So I guess they didn't really change the VICE code for that, they merely used proper 50 Hz output (which is a HDTV standard frequency) and made sure VICE runs as close to realtime as possible by telling the underlying Linux to give it full priority and removed all unnecessary background processes.
Jammet likes this.
