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Post by ToneDeF on Jan 18, 2021 19:07:45 GMT
I recently purchased THEC64 maxi and have already noticed that with every release, games are added to and removed from the firmware by Retro Games Ltd. I would like to see which offerings my THEC64 maxi is missing.
Has anyone put together a canonical list of the games that have ever been released on THEC64 mini/maxi and THEVIC20 for the carousel?
Also, has anyone archived and made it possible to download any of those past offerings (the actual game images and resources that were included in the firmware) which are no longer included in the released firmware?
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Post by shaunbebbers on Feb 2, 2021 17:09:05 GMT
I recently purchased THEC64 maxi and have already noticed that with every release, games are added to and removed from the firmware by Retro Games Ltd. I would like to see which offerings my THEC64 maxi is missing.
Has anyone put together a canonical list of the games that have ever been released on THEC64 mini/maxi and THEVIC20 for the carousel?
Also, has anyone archived and made it possible to download any of those past offerings (the actual game images and resources that were included in the firmware) which are no longer included in the released firmware?
Games should never be removed by updating the firmware - for instance, I've re-flashed a H3 board today to 1.3.2 and installed FW v1.5.2 for testing; all games that were added in previous firmware versions were added to the Carousel. Some games may have changed if they were previously found to be buggy versions that were on the Carousel, but that should be all. Regards, Shaun. |
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Post by ToneDeF on Feb 3, 2021 16:58:06 GMT
I recently purchased THEC64 maxi and have already noticed that with every release, games are added to and removed from the firmware by Retro Games Ltd. I would like to see which offerings my THEC64 maxi is missing.
Has anyone put together a canonical list of the games that have ever been released on THEC64 mini/maxi and THEVIC20 for the carousel?
Also, has anyone archived and made it possible to download any of those past offerings (the actual game images and resources that were included in the firmware) which are no longer included in the released firmware?
Games should never be removed by updating the firmware - for instance, I've re-flashed a H3 board today to 1.3.2 and installed FW v1.5.2 for testing; all games that were added in previous firmware versions were added to the Carousel. Some games may have changed if they were previously found to be buggy versions that were on the Carousel, but that should be all. Regards, Shaun. Thank you. I am aware that existing games on the Retrogames machine do not get removed after a new firmware update is installed.
My TheC64 maxi arrived with the v1.4.2 firmware and its carousel of sixty-four game titles. I am curious to know which game titles were included as part of all the firmware releases (especially prior to v1.4.2). Surely, Retrogames removed some games in earlier firmware versions to showcase other game titles while maintaining the strict total number of game titles in the firmware at sixty-four. Which previously included game titles were removed in subsequent firmware releases? It would be useful to have a canonical list of these game titles.
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Post by jj0 on Feb 4, 2021 4:36:52 GMT
Games should never be removed by updating the firmware - for instance, I've re-flashed a H3 board today to 1.3.2 and installed FW v1.5.2 for testing; all games that were added in previous firmware versions were added to the Carousel. Some games may have changed if they were previously found to be buggy versions that were on the Carousel, but that should be all. Regards, Shaun. Thank you. I am aware that existing games on the Retrogames machine do not get removed after a new firmware update is installed.Â
My TheC64 maxi arrived with the v1.4.2 firmware and its carousel of sixty-four game titles. I am curious to know which game titles were included as part of all the firmware releases (especially prior to v1.4.2). Surely, Retrogames removed some games in earlier firmware versions to showcase other game titles while maintaining the strict total number of game titles in the firmware at sixty-four. Which previously included game titles were removed in subsequent firmware releases? It would be useful to have a canonical list of these game titles.
Did you count the #of games? I thought that with RGL adding games (starting with Galencia) in various firmware updates the standard collection is now more than 64 games? |
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Post by shaunbebbers on Feb 4, 2021 8:57:53 GMT
Thank you. I am aware that existing games on the Retrogames machine do not get removed after a new firmware update is installed.
My TheC64 maxi arrived with the v1.4.2 firmware and its carousel of sixty-four game titles. I am curious to know which game titles were included as part of all the firmware releases (especially prior to v1.4.2). Surely, Retrogames removed some games in earlier firmware versions to showcase other game titles while maintaining the strict total number of game titles in the firmware at sixty-four. Which previously included game titles were removed in subsequent firmware releases? It would be useful to have a canonical list of these game titles.
Did you count the #of games? I thought that with RGL adding games (starting with Galencia) in various firmware updates the standard collection is now more than 64 games? Please remember that there are five different product lines; some firmware updates are exclusive to the Mini and some the Classic (or THEC64 Full size / THEVIC20), then some will be US Classic only etc. Thanks, Shaun. |
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Post by mobluse on Feb 4, 2021 16:31:59 GMT
THEVIC20 have these games from start according to retrogames.biz/thevic20. VIC-20: Abductor, Andes Attack, Arcadia, Bewitched, Blitzkrieg, Brainstorm, Catcha Snatcha, Connect 4, Encounter, Frantic, Frog Chase, Gridrunner, Harvester, Headbanger’s Heaven, Hell Gate, Laser Zone, Martians, Matrix, Mega Vault, Metagalactic, Llamas Battle at the Edge of Time, Psychedelia, Snake, Starquest, Subspace Striker, Tank Battle, Traxx, Wacky Waiters, Zor. C64: Alleykat, Bear Bovver, Boulder Dash, California Games, Chips Challenge, Cyberdyne Warrior, Cybernoid II, Destroyer, Firelord, Galencia Mini, Gribbly’s Day Out, Heartland, Impossible Mission, IO, Iridis Alpha, Jumpman, Mega Apocalypse, Nebulus, Netherworld, Paradroid, Pitstop II, Planet of Death, Robin of the Wood, Speedball 2, Spindizzy, Street Sports Baseball, Street Sports Basketball, Summer Games II, Super Cycle, Sword of Fargoal, Temple of Apshai Trilogy, The Arc of Yesod, Uridium, Winter Games, World Games, Zynaps. - Abductor (VIC 20)
- Alleykat
- Andes Attack (VIC 20)
- Arcadia (VIC 20)
- Bear Bovver
- Bewitched (VIC 20)
- Blitzkrieg (VIC 20)
- Boulder Dash
- Brainstorm (VIC 20)
- California Games
- Catcha Snatcha (VIC 20)
- Chips Challenge
- Connect 4 (VIC 20)
- Cyberdyne Warrior
- Cybernoid II
- Destroyer
- Encounter (VIC 20)
- Firelord
- Frantic (VIC 20)
- Frog Chase (VIC 20)
- Galencia Mini
- Gribbly’s Day Out
- Gridrunner (VIC 20)
- Harvester (VIC 20)
- Headbanger’s Heaven (VIC 20)
- Heartland
- Hell Gate (VIC 20)
- Impossible Mission
- IO
- Iridis Alpha
- Jumpman
- Laser Zone (VIC 20)
- Llamas Battle at the Edge of Time (VIC 20)
- Martians (VIC 20)
- Matrix (VIC 20)
- Mega Apocalypse
- Mega Vault (VIC 20)
- Metagalactic (VIC 20)
- Nebulus
- Netherworld
- Paradroid
- Pitstop II
- Planet of Death
- Psychedelia (VIC 20)
- Robin of the Wood
- Snake (VIC 20)
- Speedball 2
- Spindizzy
- Starquest (VIC 20)
- Street Sports Baseball
- Street Sports Basketball
- Subspace Striker (VIC 20)
- Summer Games II
- Super Cycle
- Sword of Fargoal
- Tank Battle (VIC 20)
- Temple of Apshai Trilogy
- The Arc of Yesod
- Traxx (VIC 20)
- Uridium
- Wacky Waiters (VIC 20)
- Winter Games
- World Games
- Zor (VIC 20)
- Zynaps
I used this commandline in Linux to generate the list: sed '1 s/[,.]/ (VIC 20)\n/g;2 s/[,.]/\n/g' thevic20games.txt | sed 's/^ //' | sed '/^$/d' | sort | sed 's/.*/\[li\]&\[\/li\]/' |
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Post by ToneDeF on Feb 4, 2021 16:59:54 GMT
Thank you. I am aware that existing games on the Retrogames machine do not get removed after a new firmware update is installed.
My TheC64 maxi arrived with the v1.4.2 firmware and its carousel of sixty-four game titles. I am curious to know which game titles were included as part of all the firmware releases (especially prior to v1.4.2). Surely, Retrogames removed some games in earlier firmware versions to showcase other game titles while maintaining the strict total number of game titles in the firmware at sixty-four. Which previously included game titles were removed in subsequent firmware releases? It would be useful to have a canonical list of these game titles.
Did you count the #of games? I thought that with RGL adding games (starting with Galencia) in various firmware updates the standard collection is now more than 64 games? The number of games embedded in the firmware never exceeds sixty-four game titles. A small number of titles may get swapped in/out with each substantial firmware release to maintain that count of sixty-four game titles embedded in the firmware ".bin" file. |
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Post by ToneDeF on Feb 4, 2021 17:03:33 GMT
Did you count the #of games? I thought that with RGL adding games (starting with Galencia) in various firmware updates the standard collection is now more than 64 games? Please remember that there are five different product lines; some firmware updates are exclusive to the Mini and some the Classic (or THEC64 Full size / THEVIC20), then some will be US Classic only etc. Thanks, Shaun. Five? I am only aware of TheC64 (mini) and full-size, and TheVIC20. What are the other two machines that share the firmware updates? |
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Post by ToneDeF on Feb 4, 2021 17:20:26 GMT
THEVIC20 have these games from start according to retrogames.biz/thevic20. VIC-20: Abductor, Andes Attack, Arcadia, Bewitched, Blitzkrieg, Brainstorm, Catcha Snatcha, Connect 4, Encounter, Frantic, Frog Chase, Gridrunner, Harvester, Headbanger’s Heaven, Hell Gate, Laser Zone, Martians, Matrix, Mega Vault, Metagalactic, Llamas Battle at the Edge of Time, Psychedelia, Snake, Starquest, Subspace Striker, Tank Battle, Traxx, Wacky Waiters, Zor. C64: Alleykat, Bear Bovver, Boulder Dash, California Games, Chips Challenge, Cyberdyne Warrior, Cybernoid II, Destroyer, Firelord, Galencia Mini, Gribbly’s Day Out, Heartland, Impossible Mission, IO, Iridis Alpha, Jumpman, Mega Apocalypse, Nebulus, Netherworld, Paradroid, Pitstop II, Planet of Death, Robin of the Wood, Speedball 2, Spindizzy, Street Sports Baseball, Street Sports Basketball, Summer Games II, Super Cycle, Sword of Fargoal, Temple of Apshai Trilogy, The Arc of Yesod, Uridium, Winter Games, World Games, Zynaps. - Abductor (VIC 20)
- Alleykat
- Andes Attack (VIC 20)
- Arcadia (VIC 20)
- Bear Bovver
- Bewitched (VIC 20)
- Blitzkrieg (VIC 20)
- Boulder Dash
- Brainstorm (VIC 20)
- California Games
- Catcha Snatcha (VIC 20)
- Chips Challenge
- Connect 4 (VIC 20)
- Cyberdyne Warrior
- Cybernoid II
- Destroyer
- Encounter (VIC 20)
- Firelord
- Frantic (VIC 20)
- Frog Chase (VIC 20)
- Galencia Mini
- Gribbly’s Day Out
- Gridrunner (VIC 20)
- Harvester (VIC 20)
- Headbanger’s Heaven (VIC 20)
- Heartland
- Hell Gate (VIC 20)
- Impossible Mission
- IO
- Iridis Alpha
- Jumpman
- Laser Zone (VIC 20)
- Llamas Battle at the Edge of Time (VIC 20)
- Martians (VIC 20)
- Matrix (VIC 20)
- Mega Apocalypse
- Mega Vault (VIC 20)
- Metagalactic (VIC 20)
- Nebulus
- Netherworld
- Paradroid
- Pitstop II
- Planet of Death
- Psychedelia (VIC 20)
- Robin of the Wood
- Snake (VIC 20)
- Speedball 2
- Spindizzy
- Starquest (VIC 20)
- Street Sports Baseball
- Street Sports Basketball
- Subspace Striker (VIC 20)
- Summer Games II
- Super Cycle
- Sword of Fargoal
- Tank Battle (VIC 20)
- Temple of Apshai Trilogy
- The Arc of Yesod
- Traxx (VIC 20)
- Uridium
- Wacky Waiters (VIC 20)
- Winter Games
- World Games
- Zor (VIC 20)
- Zynaps
I used this commandline in Linux to generate the list: sed '1 s/[,.]/ (VIC 20)\n/g;2 s/[,.]/\n/g' thevic20games.txt | sed 's/^ //' | sed '/^$/d' | sort | sed 's/.*/\[li\]&\[\/li\]/'That is a useful shell script to format a game list scraped from the Retrogames web page. It is a shame we cannot go back in time to get the game lists for every major update since TheC64 mini was released back in 2018.
Something seems to be off though... Retrogames has been all about maintaining a strict count of sixty-four game titles. Your script clearly enumerates sixty-five titles. Quickly scanning the list you created, I cannot see the discrepancy. Either there is an extra game being listed that is no longer included in the firmware, or Retrogames is loosening up on the sixty-four game title limit in the firmware (possibly because they are including both C64 and VIC-20 game titles now).
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Post by ToneDeF on Feb 4, 2021 17:45:14 GMT
If anyone is wondering what prompted me to inquire about the game titles included in past firmwares, it was something that I read in an online review of the C64 full-scale published in late January 2020:
I am curious what the firmware revision was of the machine being reviewed (it could be v1.4.x), but my TheC64 machine did not ship with Armalyte (supposedly included with TheC64 mini), nor did it seem to ship with the supposed new inclusion, Attack Of The Mutant Camels (aka Matrix: Gridrunner 2), unless the reviewer meant the VIC-20 Gridrunner game (included in firmware v1.4.2). For me, Galencia and all of the VIC-20 game titles were not included until I updated to the v1.4.2 firmware (thec64-1.4.2-snowbird 04-11-2020 16:24:07).
For the record, my TheC64 full-scale arrived with v1.3.2 of the firmware (thec64-1.3.2-snowbird 15-07-2020 18:29:27) installed and included the following sixty-four game titles in the carousel:
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Post by kugelblitz on Feb 4, 2021 22:09:13 GMT
If you have "Tower Toppler" you have an NTSC machine, if you have "Nebulus" you have a PAL machine. The two systems had slightly different lineups. But Nebulus/Tower Toppler is the same game with different names.
As far as I can tell Armalyte is a PAL-only game without an NTSC-version at all.
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Post by ToneDeF on Feb 5, 2021 0:27:44 GMT
If you have "Tower Toppler" you have an NTSC machine, if you have "Nebulus" you have a PAL machine. The two systems had slightly different lineups. But Nebulus/Tower Toppler is the same game with different names. As far as I can tell Armalyte is a PAL-only game without an NTSC-version at all. Thank you for sharing this.
Please correct me if the following presumption is wrong: every TheC64 machine (maxi, mini, TheVIC-20), whether it is connected to an NTSC monitor running on North American AC/DC power, or connected to a PAL monitor running on AC/DC power outside of North America, can run any game, because the VICE emulator can adjust to NTSC or PALon the fly, and the carousel games themselves each have an accompanying .TSG file with a setting that instructs the emulator which VIC type to emulate (PAL or NTSC). If my presumption is correct, then a game of any VIC type can be run on any TheC64 machine (maxi, mini, TheVIC-20). I think that might explain why Retrogames Ltd only offers a single firmware download for TheC64 Mini, and a single firmware download for TheC64 full-scale. |
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Post by kugelblitz on Feb 5, 2021 7:37:07 GMT
As I understand it:
The MINIs are locked at 50 or 60 Hz output, depending where they are sold. You can still run both PAL and NTSC on them, but the speed might be wrong. On a PAL MINI an NTSC game might be too slow.
The MAXIs can be switched between 50 and 60 Hz output in the settings but stay in the mode you set them in, even if you switch PAL/NTSC software. To get correct speed you need to match the output with the mode.
The software included with the Maxi/Mini is adapted (as much as it was back in the eighties). That's why the lineup between the machines is different. If you buy a US Maxi, it is set at 60 Hz and has games that are, as far as possible, modified for NTSC and tested. You can set it to 50 Hz - you can't do that on a US Mini.
Actually there is only ONE download for ALL machines, but it contains different firmware for the different models.
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Post by shaunbebbers on Feb 5, 2021 9:22:17 GMT
Please remember that there are five different product lines; some firmware updates are exclusive to the Mini and some the Classic (or THEC64 Full size / THEVIC20), then some will be US Classic only etc. Thanks, Shaun. Five? I am only aware of TheC64 (mini) and full-size, and TheVIC20. What are the other two machines that share the firmware updates? There are - as far as I know - three Amora builds and two Shield builds in production. These are actually different product lines as far as the firmware is concerned. Regards, Shaun. |
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Post by jj0 on Feb 5, 2021 9:57:06 GMT
Regarding the various models, as far as I understand there are: Mini: - Argent = PAL model - Shield = NTSC model Maxi: - Amora = Europe model - Snowbird = US model VIC-20: - Ares = Europe model I think as that's the one I have and I'm in Europe - ? = Is there actually a US model? Regarding there being a single firmware file containing different data for different models, see here for more info. Regarding the black magic determining the model during the upgrade process, that might be the case but then why would the Carousel pass the model name as parameter to the updater? And the model name is literally embedded as text including the firmware version in the Carousel binary: # strings /usr/bin/the64 | grep theC64
theC64-sym-UK.vkm
theC64-sym-US.vkm
theC64-sym-DE.vkm
theC64-sym-FR.vkm
theC64-sym-ES.vkm
theC64-sym-IT.vkm
theC64-sym-CLASSIC.vkm
theC64
theC64-
theC64-1.5.2-amora
#
EDIT: As additional test I ran the Mini's Carousel binary (v1.0.6 argent) on my Maxi and ran the firmware update. It happily updated the Carousel binary to v1.5.2-argent: # strings /usr/bin/the64 | grep argent
argent
theC64-1.5.2-argent
#
It didn't start anymore, but after I restored the /etc/asound.conf to the one for the Maxi it started fine. So I think this shows that the parameter is used to determine the model for the firmware update. Next I edited the 1.5.2 Maxi the64 and changed the 'amora' parameter (in the 'update amora' text) to shield and it ran the update as if it was a shield. So I have a very confused Maxi now ;-) |
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Post by shaunbebbers on Feb 5, 2021 11:12:57 GMT
Regarding the various models, as far as I understand there are: Mini: - Argent = PAL model - Shield = NTSC model Maxi: - Amora = Europe model - Snowbird = US model VIC-20: - Ares = Europe model I think as that's the one I have and I'm in Europe - ? = Is there actually a US model? Yes, that's right actually. Anything beginning with A is essentially non-North America models (and S is North American). There is no North American THEVIC20 model. Also, regarding the "Maxi" - it should actually just be THEC64 or THEC64 Classic. I don't know where the "Maxi" name came from, but it wasn't RGL. But because of it, we often refer to the Classic as the "full-size" machine. Regards, Shaun. |
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Post by kugelblitz on Feb 5, 2021 12:08:05 GMT
Regarding the various models, as far as I understand there are: Mini: - Argent = PAL model - Shield = NTSC model Maxi: - Amora = Europe model - Snowbird = US model VIC-20: - Ares = Europe model I think as that's the one I have and I'm in Europe - ? = Is there actually a US model? Yes, that's right actually. Anything beginning with A is essentially non-North America models (and S is North American). There is no North American THEVIC20 model. Also, regarding the "Maxi" - it should actually just be THEC64 or THEC64 Classic. I don't know where the "Maxi" name came from, but it wasn't RGL. But because of it, we often refer to the Classic as the "full-size" machine. Regards, Shaun. I worked at Xbox for over ten years and it really is problematic with the original Xbox that is just Xbox - people called it the Xbox 1 when Xbox 360 shipped... The full-size machine will always now be the "maxi" with us simply to make clear which machine we are talking about. As with just saying "Xbox" can be an Xbox, a 360, a One, a One S, a Series X... (quite a mess). |
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Post by shaunbebbers on Feb 5, 2021 13:50:18 GMT
Yes, that's right actually. Anything beginning with A is essentially non-North America models (and S is North American). There is no North American THEVIC20 model. Also, regarding the "Maxi" - it should actually just be THEC64 or THEC64 Classic. I don't know where the "Maxi" name came from, but it wasn't RGL. But because of it, we often refer to the Classic as the "full-size" machine. Regards, Shaun. I worked at Xbox for over ten years and it really is problematic with the original Xbox that is just Xbox - people called it the Xbox 1 when Xbox 360 shipped... The full-size machine will always now be the "maxi" with us simply to make clear which machine we are talking about. As with just saying "Xbox" can be an Xbox, a 360, a One, a One S, a Series X... (quite a mess). For me, THEC64 Classic is well, much more classy and is as easy to distinguish than "Maxi" which sounds like incontinence protection. Regards, Shaun. |
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Post by ToneDeF on Feb 5, 2021 14:51:28 GMT
Thank you kugelblitz, jj0, shaunbebbers for all of the useful feedback; I feel a bit more educated. Retrogames's decision to provide a unified firmware release seems very sensible to me; I suppose the carousel games now being included in the unified firmware have been selected because they have been verified to run well on all models (A and S). Assuming there will be a North American TheVIC20, I nominate "sasquatch" for the code name. 
Some more questions...
[1] In another forum thread in this community, we had been discussing how to ensure that the games delivered with Project Carousel all start and run perfectly for everyone. Project Carousel and the games curated for it are put together and tested on A model machines in Europe. For folks like me with an S model in North America, many of the games included with the Project Carousel do not start up perfectly when activated, but start up fine for folks using the A models. We were hoping that this problem could be overcome via configuration. I was hoping a shell script could be devised which was capable of safely altering the appropriate game files for each affected game as necessary. Is this achievable?
[2] Does anyone still have all of the various firmware .bin files ever released by Retrogames?
[3] Are any of the TheC64 modding tools available today able to extract the game files, launch files, image files used by the carousel from the firmware .bin file?
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Post by shaunbebbers on Feb 5, 2021 15:18:00 GMT
Thank you kugelblitz , jj0 , shaunbebbers for all of the useful feedback; I feel a bit more educated. Retrogames's decision to provide a unified firmware release seems very sensible to me; I suppose the carousel games now being included in the unified firmware have been selected because they have been verified to run well on all models (A and S). Assuming there will be a North American TheVIC20, I nominate "sasquatch" for the code name.
Some more questions...
[1] In another forum thread in this community, we had been discussing how to ensure that the games delivered with Project Carousel all start and run perfectly for everyone. Project Carousel and the games curated for it are put together and tested on A model machines in Europe. For folks like me with an S model in North America, many of the games included with the Project Carousel do not start up perfectly when activated, but start up fine for folks using the A models. We were hoping that this problem could be overcome via configuration. I was hoping a shell script could be devised which was capable of safely altering the appropriate game files for each affected game as necessary. Is this achievable?
[2] Does anyone still have all of the various firmware .bin files ever released by Retrogames?
[3] Are any of the TheC64 modding tools available today able to extract the game files, launch files, image files used by the carousel from the firmware .bin file?
Unfortunately I'm not able to answer any of those questions questions, but I know that RGL do not archive previous Firmware versions for public consumption. Regards, Shaun. |
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Post by jj0 on Feb 5, 2021 16:05:46 GMT
Thank you kugelblitz , jj0 , shaunbebbers for all of the useful feedback; I feel a bit more educated. Retrogames's decision to provide a unified firmware release seems very sensible to me; I suppose the carousel games now being included in the unified firmware have been selected because they have been verified to run well on all models (A and S). Assuming there will be a North American TheVIC20, I nominate "sasquatch" for the code name.
Some more questions...
[1] In another forum thread in this community, we had been discussing how to ensure that the games delivered with Project Carousel all start and run perfectly for everyone. Project Carousel and the games curated for it are put together and tested on A model machines in Europe. For folks like me with an S model in North America, many of the games included with the Project Carousel do not start up perfectly when activated, but start up fine for folks using the A models. We were hoping that this problem could be overcome via configuration. I was hoping a shell script could be devised which was capable of safely altering the appropriate game files for each affected game as necessary. Is this achievable?
[2] Does anyone still have all of the various firmware .bin files ever released by Retrogames?
[3] Are any of the TheC64 modding tools available today able to extract the game files, launch files, image files used by the carousel from the firmware .bin file?
[3] Check the thread I mentioned on the firmware content, the tool(s) to extract the contents are in that thread somewhere. |
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Post by vic2020ian on Feb 5, 2021 16:51:22 GMT
Regarding the various models, as far as I understand there are: Mini: - Argent = PAL model - Shield = NTSC model Maxi: - Amora = Europe model - Snowbird = US model VIC-20: - Ares = Europe model I think as that's the one I have and I'm in Europe - ? = Is there actually a US model? Regarding there being a single firmware file containing different data for different models, see here for more info. Regarding the black magic determining the model during the upgrade process, that might be the case but then why would the Carousel pass the model name as parameter to the updater? And the model name is literally embedded as text including the firmware version in the Carousel binary: # strings /usr/bin/the64 | grep theC64
theC64-sym-UK.vkm
theC64-sym-US.vkm
theC64-sym-DE.vkm
theC64-sym-FR.vkm
theC64-sym-ES.vkm
theC64-sym-IT.vkm
theC64-sym-CLASSIC.vkm
theC64
theC64-
theC64-1.5.2-amora
#
EDIT: As additional test I ran the Mini's Carousel binary (v1.0.6 argent) on my Maxi and ran the firmware update. It happily updated the Carousel binary to v1.5.2-argent: # strings /usr/bin/the64 | grep argent
argent
theC64-1.5.2-argent
#
It didn't start anymore, but after I restored the /etc/asound.conf to the one for the Maxi it started fine. So I think this shows that the parameter is used to determine the model for the firmware update. Next I edited the 1.5.2 Maxi the64 and changed the 'amora' parameter (in the 'update amora' text) to shield and it ran the update as if it was a shield. So I have a very confused Maxi now ;-) If I understand you turned your Maxi into a Pal Mini then an NTSC Mini. Did the keyboard work? Did you get your non working PAL games to work? Can you get a Mini to function as a Maxi? i.e. add Vic20? |
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Post by jj0 on Feb 5, 2021 20:18:41 GMT
Regarding the various models, as far as I understand there are: Mini: - Argent = PAL model - Shield = NTSC model Maxi: - Amora = Europe model - Snowbird = US model VIC-20: - Ares = Europe model I think as that's the one I have and I'm in Europe - ? = Is there actually a US model? Regarding there being a single firmware file containing different data for different models, see here for more info. Regarding the black magic determining the model during the upgrade process, that might be the case but then why would the Carousel pass the model name as parameter to the updater? And the model name is literally embedded as text including the firmware version in the Carousel binary: # strings /usr/bin/the64 | grep theC64
theC64-sym-UK.vkm
theC64-sym-US.vkm
theC64-sym-DE.vkm
theC64-sym-FR.vkm
theC64-sym-ES.vkm
theC64-sym-IT.vkm
theC64-sym-CLASSIC.vkm
theC64
theC64-
theC64-1.5.2-amora
#
EDIT: As additional test I ran the Mini's Carousel binary (v1.0.6 argent) on my Maxi and ran the firmware update. It happily updated the Carousel binary to v1.5.2-argent: # strings /usr/bin/the64 | grep argent
argent
theC64-1.5.2-argent
#
It didn't start anymore, but after I restored the /etc/asound.conf to the one for the Maxi it started fine. So I think this shows that the parameter is used to determine the model for the firmware update. Next I edited the 1.5.2 Maxi the64 and changed the 'amora' parameter (in the 'update amora' text) to shield and it ran the update as if it was a shield. So I have a very confused Maxi now ;-) If I understand you turned your Maxi into a Pal Mini then an NTSC Mini. Did the keyboard work? Did you get your non working PAL games to work? Can you get a Mini to function as a Maxi? i.e. add Vic20? The keyboard (external nor internal) worked in the Carousel but didn't work in BASIC. I did briefly try Barnsley Badger (PAL) as NTSC Mini and the music was very choppy. But this was not so much to get the Mini binary working on the Maxi, but more to prove that the machine type is passed by the Carousel to the firmware updater. AFAIK getting the Mini working as Maxi isn't possible, at least the MAxi's the64 binary doesn't run on the Mini. |
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Post by jj0 on Feb 5, 2021 20:21:58 GMT
I worked at Xbox for over ten years and it really is problematic with the original Xbox that is just Xbox - people called it the Xbox 1 when Xbox 360 shipped... The full-size machine will always now be the "maxi" with us simply to make clear which machine we are talking about. As with just saying "Xbox" can be an Xbox, a 360, a One, a One S, a Series X... (quite a mess). For me, THEC64 Classic is well, much more classy and is as easy to distinguish than "Maxi" which sounds like incontinence protection. Regards, Shaun. Yes maybe, but then RGL shouldn't have called the first one the 'Mini', but rather an antonym of 'Classic'... 'THEC64 Irregular' anyone? ;-) Also as of FW 1.5.1 the Mini now also has a Classic mode. |
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Post by ToneDeF on Feb 7, 2021 4:02:01 GMT
[3] Are any of the TheC64 modding tools available today able to extract the game files, launch files, image files used by the carousel from the firmware .bin file? [3] Check the thread I mentioned on the firmware content, the tool(s) to extract the contents are in that thread somewhere. Thanks. I scanned through that thread, but nothing really jumped out at me as a tool or a procedure for extracting the contents out of a Retrogames firmware .bin file. |
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Post by jj0 on Feb 7, 2021 8:12:52 GMT
[3] Check the thread I mentioned on the firmware content, the tool(s) to extract the contents are in that thread somewhere. Thanks. I scanned through that thread, but nothing really jumped out at me as a tool or a procedure for extracting the contents out of a Retrogames firmware .bin file. Hmmm which thread did you scan through? I meant this bit. |
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Post by ToneDeF on Feb 7, 2021 19:16:06 GMT
Thanks. I scanned through that thread, but nothing really jumped out at me as a tool or a procedure for extracting the contents out of a Retrogames firmware .bin file. Hmmm which thread did you scan through? I meant this bit. Thank you; apparently I was looking at the wrong posts. The decodefw.exe tool which you pointed me to is great. Is there a useful tool like this for extracting files from a saved NANDx dump file? |
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Post by jj0 on Feb 7, 2021 19:21:28 GMT
Hmmm which thread did you scan through? I meant this bit. Thank you; apparently I was looking at the wrong posts. The decodefw.exe tool which you pointed me to is great. Is there a useful tool like this for extracting files from a saved NANDx dump file? nandb is a Linux ext4 filesystem so in Linux you can just mount it. In Windows you can probably do the same if you install Windows Subsystem for Linux or by a combination of an image mount program and ext2fs driver. Or maybe extract it with 7zip? I haven't tried it in Windows. |
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Post by ToneDeF on Feb 7, 2021 20:47:38 GMT
Thank you; apparently I was looking at the wrong posts. The decodefw.exe tool which you pointed me to is great. Is there a useful tool like this for extracting files from a saved NANDx dump file? nandb is a Linux ext4 filesystem so in Linux you can just mount it. In Windows you can probably do the same if you install Windows Subsystem for Linux or by a combination of an image mount program and ext2fs driver. Or maybe extract it with 7zip? I haven't tried it in Windows. You are the man! 7-Zip works like a charm. I had no idea 7Zip could read a Linux EXT file system image. No wonder folks on here like it so much; it can read so many file formats. I have a paid license for WinRAR, so I have always used that for my archive needs (.JAR, .TAR, .ZIP, .ISO, and .RAR). |
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Post by ToneDeF on Feb 13, 2021 23:24:10 GMT
So here it is: my humble attempt at compiling a complete list of the various carousel game titles initially released by Retrogames Ltd for each of the various product lines (THEC64 Mini; THEC64 full-size; THE VIC20) and then further augmented by subsequent firmware updates (this listing is current as of v1.5.2):
There are 122 titles listed above (120 if you leave out CBM Basic and THEC64 Hall of Fame entries); also, it was correctly pointed out earlier in this thread that "Nebulous" and "Tower Toppler" are actually the same game.
I believe that all of these titles will run just fine on THEC64 (full-size) and THE VIC20. In Project Carousel USB Anniversary Edition (PCUAE), they will probably also run on THEC64 Mini (a USB keyboard may be required for optimal execution of some game titles, though).
Some game titles were definitely released by Retrogames Ltd in NTSC and PAL variants (e.g. Impossible Mission II); both variants appear to function equally well on the THEC64 full-size when used with the associated ".tsg" file (configured for either NTSC or PAL as appropriate).
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